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Post by artslap on Aug 5, 2015 1:11:01 GMT
Hi,
(I apologise up front as this is only my third post, but my frustration has boiled over)
A humble suggestion and a little background:
I'm the very proud owner of a new ProEdge.
Love the engineering, love the thought put into the product, love the packaging when it was delivered, love how it works, everything, EXCEPT -
THE LACK OF INSTRUCTIONS!!!!
The included book is very, very basic.
I've trawled the interweb looking for instructions on the correct way to actually use the Proedge, and with the exception of some lathe tools and (I seem to recall) the knife jig, very little else.
Damm frustrating!
I understand there is an instructional DVD, but I've just dished out $$$ on the unit, and don't really want to have to shell out again, and wait, for a DVD showing me how to use the thing.
Twice I've seen/heard "ready to use straight out of the box". Literally correct, if you know how to use the thing.
I'd suggest putting all the instructional DVD content on youtube.
I'm sure the youtube instructions would act as promotional material for the ProEdge in any case.
If was richer and more pig-headed, I might just put the thing in a corner, let it gather wood shavings and never recommend the unit to anyone.
As stated, I absolutely love the ProEdge and I don't regret the purchase, but I really believe that the manufacturers are letting themselves down in regards to instructions.
I'm willing to hear criticism of this post, as I understand my post is criticism, but I feel strongly that this great product is being let down and the fix is simple.
I've had the unit for a week and stumbled across this forum yesterday and asked a question about sharpening router bits (no response as yet) and this morning wondered how to sharpen drill bits. I know I can ask the sharpening drill bits question here, but if I'd found the answer(s) on youtube then I'd already have sharpened every blunt tool I own.
Humbly yours,
Chris.
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Post by Rob on Aug 5, 2015 18:53:54 GMT
I feel your pain Chris :-)
I agree the instructions are a bit of an after thought and I suspect I know the reason. The PE is primarily aimed at wood turners and turners are a fairly eclectic bunch! They do generally know a thing or two about sharpening and grinding and don't think they need a huge amount of the written word to get them converted to linisher style tools. On the other hand, its reputation is so good now that its being bought by folks with less general sharpening experience and as such I agree it could use some beefing up in the manual.
Have you tried all the YT vids as there are quite a few.
Specifically for drill bits I just set the platen at 60 degrees and carefully grind all facets (usually 2) such that they're evenly balanced (otherwise you move the point off centre) and that I do by eye so they simply look symmetrical. You have to roll the drill a little while keeping it flat to the platen to maintain that angle.
I've had stunning results using that approach and frankly, I doubt I'll ever buy another drill bit as long as I have the right size/length as I can sharpen them better than new now with a stupidly small amount of effort.
HTH
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Post by artslap on Aug 6, 2015 23:54:59 GMT
Rob,
Many Thanks for the reply and the advice on the drill bits. I'll give it a shot.
I thought there might have been a bit of the "eclectic wood turners" stuff going on.
I really believe that the product would gain more followers (and more sales) if someone could google "sharpening router bits" and find a Sorby youtube video.
Let's hope.
The Proedge certainly deserves it.
CP.
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Post by Rob on Aug 8, 2015 10:35:55 GMT
It's funny because I'm a Yorkshireman. Let me explain. What you're hankering after, quite naturally is collateral, information, instruction. Some might even call that stuff marketing because it helps sell the product as well as inform people how to get the best from it
Now Sorby is of course a VERY traditional Yorkshire firm. Yorkshire iis renowned for its (historically) steel, coal, rail, cricket and of course puddings!
But in the county men are still MEN and they don't like pussy footing around with all this namby pamby marketing nonsense. No sir, that's what the women folk do. We make things from hot metal!
Now move forward to the recent past and a thrusting American chap joins the team. This particular American wrote the book on how to market another sharpening technology State side and was very successful at penetrating that massive homogeneous market. Now, I am hoping that his particular style of thinking will eventually penetrate the thick steel skulls of the Yorkshiremen and out will pop a product/market strategy that actually gives both customers and prospects s fighting chance of maximising the use of the PE. But for that to happen the Yorkshiremen will need to embrace a word that Yorkshire has been struggling with since WW2.......Change. There I've gone and said it now. The cats out the bag. New fangled is probably how the locals view it. It's not to be trusted!
But I live in hope that the minds that can innovate the fabulous product that is the PE can also acknowledge that tools need a modicum of instruction too
I can say this with impunity as s Yoekshireman that escaped the county young. But who visits family regularly. And Yorkshire will always be in my blood but I don't want too much of it in my head!
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mcb
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Post by mcb on Aug 8, 2015 23:42:19 GMT
[snip] But for that to happen the York shitemen will need to embrace a word .... [snip] Was that a typo? Seriously though, I thought that I had posted a suggestion. I spent a long time typing it but it never appeared. That confirms my long held view that computers work by Witchcraft. However, my suggestion is to go along to one of the shows to which R Sorby sends its representatives and take samples of the things you want sharpened. Then ask the representative to show you how to sharpen your stuff. That's what I did. Incidentally, I suggest that the ProEdge is possibly NOT the best thing to use to sharpen Drill Bits. The problem that I had was getting the chisel point centred and sufficient Lip Relief Angle. I solved that problem with a Drill Doctor but the Drill bit sharpener manufactured by Multisharp: www.multi-sharp.comis almost as good and substantially cheaper. MCB |
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Post by artslap on Aug 9, 2015 1:06:37 GMT
Ah! I did consider that with its illustrious history Robert Sorby & Sons may well be mired in yesterday's thinking. Certainly seems that way with the lack of Youtube content. They do have a www at least, so there is hope.
I take your suggestion on board MCB, but seeing as I reside in the Antipodes, I'm not sure any Sorby representative has ever graced our shores.
Rob, I thought initially you were suggesting "to be a man" and have a crack at sharpening things with a some guts and a little intuition. Normally I'd give it a go, but as a pastime I play guitar and usually require all my fingers to fret anything listenable.
Maybe not the attitude of Messer's Root and Boycott, but I'm sure you can still bat with nine fingers!
I'd like to offer my services to Sorby as Marketing guru and they can pay me on Commission only of sales generated by the immediate release of all AV material to the interweb.
Then I'll retire to the Bahamas.
CP.
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Post by Rob on Aug 9, 2015 13:05:28 GMT
[snip] But for that to happen the York shitemen will need to embrace a word .... [snip] Was that a typo? Seriously though, I thought that I had posted a suggestion. I spent a long time typing it but it never appeared. That confirms my long held view that computers work by Witchcraft. However, my suggestion is to go along to one of the shows to which R Sorby sends its representatives and take samples of the things you want sharpened. Then ask the representative to show you how to sharpen your stuff. That's what I did. Incidentally, I suggest that the ProEdge is possibly NOT the best thing to use to sharpen Drill Bits. The problem that I had was getting the chisel point centred and sufficient Lip Relief Angle. I solved that problem with a Drill Doctor but the Drill bit sharpener manufactured by Multisharp: www.multi-sharp.comis almost as good and substantially cheaper. MCB It was a typo yes. I might have a pop at Yorkshires attitude to change but I wouldn't insult them like that. There is a positive corrolory to the intransigence to change which is stamina and staying power generally. Yorkshire is as robust as the once mass produced steel from Sheffield. I think all that's needed is more embracing of the modern digital media that's all. Their tools are superb and I don't meant to impune what is a very venerable company. |
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mcb
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Post by mcb on Aug 9, 2015 17:49:02 GMT
Ah! I did consider that with its illustrious history Robert Sorby & Sons may well be mired in yesterday's thinking. Certainly seems that way with the lack of Youtube content. They do have a www at least, so there is hope. I take your suggestion on board MCB, but seeing as I reside in the Antipodes, I'm not sure any Sorby representative has ever graced our shores. [snip] On Sorby's website under Resources > Events, there's a long list of the venues for their demonstration days in Australia and New Zealand in July 2015 So you could have met someone and asked for advice. I can't play films on my browser so a disc in the box would be far preferable as far as I'm concerned. The cost would be negligible (compared with the cost of the Pro-Edge!) Why NOT write to Sorby and ask when they are next having a ”show“ near you? MC |
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Post by Rob on Aug 9, 2015 20:14:08 GMT
I should emphasise that there is in fact a reasonable amount of content on YT, not all of it from Sorby themselves. One I recall is about 15 minutes long and is very useful for turners as it demonstrates the horseshoe method for restoring the back of a badly ground gouge. By grinding the back into a horseshoe you give yourself a perfect reference to follow when elliptically grinding the front ie the cutting edge. So do a search in YT on Sorby Pre Edge and follow up all 10 or so of the links you find. There is some useful material also done by 3rd parties too.
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Post by Clive Brooks on Aug 21, 2015 9:33:26 GMT
Good morning fellow forumers.............I would like to start by offering a warm welcome to the Robert Sorby forum to Artslap and thank you for your comments. We always appreciate feedback from our loyal customers whether it's good, bad or indifferent. Each of these help us to keep up to date with what our product users are looking for from us as a company and our products.
The great part about our forum is that we have a wonderful group of contributors willing to help whenever anyone has questions, queries and issues. Thank you to Rob and mcb on this occasion for your input and advice to Artslap as well as your own comments.
We receive thousands of compliments regarding our large selection of informative videos on the Robert Sorby website and the Robert Sorby channel on YouTube which are all free to watch and download.
Robert Sorby customers contact us directly on a daily basis asking for help regarding our products and we try to help in whatever way we can.
We have a programme of additional videos that we are looking to produce in the future.
We are a small very dedicated team and thankfully Robert Sorby is currently having its busiest year so unfortunately our resources are currently stretched to the limit.
Our customers can communicate directly with us via the 'contact us' section of the Robert Sorby website or directly via email or telephone with any questions regarding the use of the ProEdge or any other Robert Sorby product as well as joining in on this dedicated forum.
Robert Sorby is the only woodturning tool manufacturer in the World that has factory based staff that travel throughout the world presenting the use and benefits of its products. I personally have travelled to over 25 different countries to do just that. Our Southern hemisphere sales manager has just returned from a 6 week tour of the Antipodes including over 20 presentations in various parts of Australia.
I certainly take on board Robs comments about Yorkshiremen as I am an Alien here in Sheffield coming from Gloucestershire. Our head of marketing who is from Cheshire and I are trying our best to drag them at least into the 20th Century (the 21st is our project for next year).
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Post by artslap on Aug 21, 2015 22:59:30 GMT
Clive,
Thanks for the reply.
I really appreciate you talking the time to write.
I look forward to those additional videos.
I'm continue trying, through trial and error, to dispel the mist that surrounds the black art of sharpening!
I've got a chisel with an edge I'm quite happy with now. At least that's a start.
CP.
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Post by Rob on Aug 24, 2015 9:47:25 GMT
Good morning fellow forumers.............I would like to start by offering a warm welcome to the Robert Sorby forum to Artslap and thank you for your comments. We always appreciate feedback from our loyal customers whether it's good, bad or indifferent. Each of these help us to keep up to date with what our product users are looking for from us as a company and our products. The great part about our forum is that we have a wonderful group of contributors willing to help whenever anyone has questions, queries and issues. Thank you to Rob and mcb on this occasion for your input and advice to Artslap as well as your own comments. We receive thousands of compliments regarding our large selection of informative videos on the Robert Sorby website and the Robert Sorby channel on YouTube which are all free to watch and download. Robert Sorby customers contact us directly on a daily basis asking for help regarding our products and we try to help in whatever way we can. We have a programme of additional videos that we are looking to produce in the future. We are a small very dedicated team and thankfully Robert Sorby is currently having its busiest year so unfortunately our resources are currently stretched to the limit. Our customers can communicate directly with us via the 'contact us' section of the Robert Sorby website or directly via email or telephone with any questions regarding the use of the ProEdge or any other Robert Sorby product as well as joining in on this dedicated forum. Robert Sorby is the only woodturning tool manufacturer in the World that has factory based staff that travel throughout the world presenting the use and benefits of its products. I personally have travelled to over 25 different countries to do just that. Our Southern hemisphere sales manager has just returned from a 6 week tour of the Antipodes including over 20 presentations in various parts of Australia. I certainly take on board Robs comments about Yorkshiremen as I am an Alien here in Sheffield coming from Gloucestershire. Our head of marketing who is from Cheshire and I are trying our best to drag them at least into the 20th Century (the 21st is our project for next year). Haha......good for you for being a good sport Clive :-)What worries me is the notion that Sorby are taking "foreigners" from Cheshire and Gloucestershire into the fray....they'll be hiring yanks next....oops, too late :-)Seriously though, I think many of your customers will welcome further releases of digital footage on the various uses of the tools. I help to run our local turning club and on practical days always take my PE along. The newer turners find it a revelation and frequently, I find at the next meet they are the proud owners of one (commission claim form in post under separate cover). Then come the questions, quite naturally of course. They do pretty much to a man (& 1 woman in the case of our club) whinge a bit about the thin manual. Of course with business booming so fabulously in 2015, I feel certain the board will approve the headcount for further marketing resource to meet this blossoming demand for digital content :-) |
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Post by AusPom on Sept 3, 2015 0:11:08 GMT
Ah! I did consider that with its illustrious history Robert Sorby & Sons may well be mired in yesterday's thinking. Certainly seems that way with the lack of Youtube content. They do have a www at least, so there is hope. I take your suggestion on board MCB, but seeing as I reside in the Antipodes, I'm not sure any Sorby representative has ever graced our shores. Rob, I thought initially you were suggesting "to be a man" and have a crack at sharpening things with a some guts and a little intuition. Normally I'd give it a go, but as a pastime I play guitar and usually require all my fingers to fret anything listenable. Maybe not the attitude of Messer's Root and Boycott, but I'm sure you can still bat with nine fingers! I'd like to offer my services to Sorby as Marketing guru and they can pay me on Commission only of sales generated by the immediate release of all AV material to the interweb. Then I'll retire to the Bahamas. CP. Not sure which part of the Antipodes you are living but I have seen a Sorby rep last year and again this year and that is just in sleepy old Adelaide. He gave demos all across Australia and NZ |
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