rich
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Posts: 13
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Post by rich on Mar 2, 2021 16:14:41 GMT
Hi Everyone, First post here, much useful information. I received my ProEdge at Christmas and have been slowly getting to grips with it having watched the various videos. Generally very positive outcomes particularly being able to just dial in an angle without having to squint at an angle gauge. One issue I am having is getting a good edge on chisels, for example I’ve attached a couple of pictures of my skew chisel after a 120 grit ceramic belt. Hopefully you can see the grind isn’t flat at the edge but has a very slight chamfer at the very tip. You can see on one side of the skew this chamfered tip has a slight crescent shape, almost saying the platform isn’t flat What am I doing wrong? I have the same issue on a 90 degree wood chisels. I’ve also a finer trizact belt but I still have the same effect so it must be technique? Any suggestions would be appreciated .   thanks Richard |
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Post by Pete on Mar 2, 2021 18:07:37 GMT
Hi Richard
I too struggled with the skew at first, like any tool there is a learning curve. first tip is get the angle of the belt comfortable Skew's have a different angle to gouges (loosen the hex bolt and tip the whole belt mechanism) for me it is about 20° from vertical but some experimentation is key. Next bit is ensure that you are holding it flat to the table with your thumb and aligned to the triangle edge before feeding it into the belt being careful not to twist or lift it.
It is just practice and experiment with positioning. Finally don't push too hard into the belt, let the belt cut it to sharp with minimal pressure.
Pete
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Post by Stupot on Mar 3, 2021 14:38:25 GMT
Hello, had my machine just before Christmas, too, so not yet tried out on 90 degree wood chisels or plane irons. Looking at the pics it appears you have produced a secondary bevel - and the lower picture particularly has the appearance of a concave (i.e. hollow) grind. How can this be?!
Hope when all sorted out, you will be willing to let us know what was going wrong, so us newcomers can avoid making the same mistake.
Stu
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rich
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Posts: 13
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Post by rich on Mar 3, 2021 16:25:21 GMT
Made some progress.
My first issue was not grinding enough on the 60 grit belt, some of that secondary bevel was left over from the previous grind which was a different angle.
My second issue was the back plate has already developed some quite severe scoring and a bit of a hollow, disappointing it’s happened so quickly but I have had to reprofile all my turning tools to use the now correct angle that the ProEdge gives you. I used a course piece of Emery paper stuck on a bit of mdf and I soon cleaned it up, forgot my phone so didn’t take any pictures.
This together with Pete’s advice above has improved things but I’m still not convinced it’s as sharp as when I was using a 100 grit white 150mm grinding wheel, the edge is just not as clean, I’ll be having another go tomorrow so will post some more photos to show results.
The other thing I’m not sure of, is it better to just push the tool onto the belt or is it better to slide the tool from side so side to use the full width of the belt? I’m concerned that the belt will wear unevenly if you don’t slide from side to side which is fine until you need to do a plane iron which needs the full width?
Richard
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Post by Pete on Mar 4, 2021 2:08:06 GMT
I tried the side to side thing couldn't get the hang of it. As a compromise I use a different bit of belt on each time I flip the tool or remove it from the belt as I now use the diamond belt which has a thicker foam padding on the back of it and a finer cutting edge (somewhere between 120 and 240) I am happy with the edge on every tool, when I was using the standard belts I stuck with 120 on gouges but would take the skew to 240.
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rich
New Member
Posts: 13
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Post by rich on Mar 4, 2021 16:53:47 GMT
Still not making a huge amount of progress here. My first thoughts were to check the machine over just make sure there’s nothing obviously wrong. 1. Is the table at 90 degrees to the side plate - yes, perfect. 2. Are the pulleys running true - yes, using a dial gauge the top pulley was less than 1 thou out, the bottom was 5 thou. 3. Is the backplate flat - very grooved so took action.   now flat, couldn’t remove the central grooves without removing a lot of metal. So the machine checks out. Next had a close look at how the belts are running, very poorly in my view. I took a couple of slow mo videos which I’ve uploaded YouTube, does this look normal? The trizact belt is basically brand new. Sorry about the change in orientation. |
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rich
New Member
Posts: 13
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Post by rich on Mar 4, 2021 17:48:08 GMT
Here’s another video showing the side to side motion.
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Post by Stupot on Mar 4, 2021 20:01:24 GMT
I'll keep my comments to a minimum as there's clearly something wrong with one or both of the pulleys. Belts on my machine run steadily and once the tracking is adjusted for a particular belt, this remains so. Your belts appear to wander, both from side to side and also up and down! No doubt the moderator will ask the technical people at Robert Sorby to have a closer look and offer you an explanation.
For what it's worth, I prefer the zirconium belts but this may be because I am more a metalworker than a woodworker.
Hope all gets sorted out soon.
Stu
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rich
New Member
Posts: 13
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Post by rich on Mar 5, 2021 8:55:12 GMT
Thanks Stu, I’m starting to get a bit frustrated now, I’m a bit loathed to go and buy another set of belts and a new backplate to remove those grooves until I’m sure there’s nothing else wrong, it may just be me...now you mention zirconium belts I should have one that came with the machine, probably still in the box as I went straight onto the ceramic belts, must be worth a try....
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Post by Pete on Mar 5, 2021 13:10:21 GMT
Rich the zirconium are more for bench chisels than woodworking ones. I will call Clive to come take a look at the thread.
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rich
New Member
Posts: 13
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Post by rich on Mar 7, 2021 8:58:00 GMT
I parked this for a few days and then had a fresh start.... I found the unused 120 grit aluminium oxide belt that came with the ProEdge, first I was surprised at how thin and flexible it is compared to the ceramic belts. I measured it at 0.6mm thick compared to 1.2mm of the ceramic belt. As soon as the belt was on I could see it was improved, firstly the tension seemed higher with the belt almost snapping firmly against the back plate, must be much easier to tension such a thin belt. I then tried some wood turning chisels and got a very clean cut.  I then tried a plane iron and again got a good result (or so I thought, see next post).  So after using this belt I get the real impression that the ceramic belts I have are so thick they are not being tensioned enough to run flat and true. So have I got a bad batch of belts, they were sold as genuine by Yandles but they weren’t actually marked Robert Sorby although they had the familiar looking label...However, the trizact belt is clearly is genuine 3M.  |
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rich
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Posts: 13
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Post by rich on Mar 7, 2021 9:12:29 GMT
To carry on as I ran out of attachments... The plane iron initially looked good until I used my flat diamond plate to finish the edge off as I couldn’t use the trizact belt, you can clearly see how poor the actual edge was in terms of being flat and 90 degrees. Even with a smooth running trizact belt there is no way this would be an acceptable flat edge to plane with. It was not a matter of a few strokes to finish off an accurate bevel which again was very disappointing. The wider chisels are of course just the same.  So here’s hoping the folks at Robert Sorby can sort this but I’d be very interested to hear if anyone has managed to get a plane iron sharpened to good flat edge straight from the machine. |
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ola
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Post by ola on Mar 9, 2021 22:50:55 GMT
I also found the zeramic belts to thick/stiff for this use and acchieve straighter edges with standard belts.
With that said, I only use my pro edge to make the primary "rough" bevel on chisels and plane irons. I got straighter edges after I modified my machine to use tormek style bar and jigs (see other thread), but it's not straight enough as final cutting edge on a plane iron. Slightest wear in the back plate, slightest jump in the band, slightest whatever and you get a slightly uneven edge on a wide iron. Just not worth the effort imo. Primary bevel is 95% of the time when a full regrind is needed, if I need to make final cutting edge or secondary bevel manually I see no big problem with that. (But, edge sure needs to be straight enough for finishing to be a few manual strokes!) That's how I used the Tormek as well when I had one, only for primary bevel, and since the Pro Edge is 10 times faster for that purpose I'm satisfied with my machine.
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rich
New Member
Posts: 13
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Post by rich on Mar 10, 2021 18:01:59 GMT
Thanks for this comment, it’s good to know that it’s not just me. I’d hoped someone from Robert Sorby would have given some sort of input as well by now though.
My main concern is that I can’t sharpen a skew chisel to a good edge using the ceramic belt I have which is designed for HSS tools, that’s a real issue for me....
As a slight aside, I met an engineer friend whilst out for a walk over the weekend and we chatted over the gate about what we were doing. He’s retired and now makes model traction engines from scratch but spent his life doing precision engineering. Anyway his experience was that linishers need an adjustable tensioner so that different belt types can be properly tensioned, he was very doubtful that a spring could properly tension all belt types....
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Post by Stupot on Mar 11, 2021 18:10:03 GMT
To reply to the last two posters and to this thread generally - I too found the ceramic belts somewhat stiff and lumpy. Thankfully, apart from the diamond belt, all other belts are of low cost, so I am working my way through them to see first hand how they behave! Despite Tormek's assertion that a single bevel for wood chisels /plane irons is sufficient, I have reverted to my old method of producing primary and secondary bevels. This facilitates edge restoration by hand, using a flat sharpening stone or diamond plate, exactly as described by ola - see above post.
However, I tried sharpening a 25mm wood chisel just using the PE. Primary bevel 25 degrees, using 120 grit zirconium - very fast, and checked squareness with engineers set square. All OK. Then 30 degree secondary bevel using an Axminster Tools plastic belt, marked P 2500. Result a very sharp and "polished" edge so no further honing required. No doubt a fine grade Trizact belt would also suffice for this final stage.
Would point out that I have no connection with Axminster Tools nor Robert Sorby, for that matter. Used the Tormek chisel/plane iron jig with a home made bracket to accommodate the Tormek 12mm support bar.
On the question of belt tension, very interesting comments above from the OP. I suspect, however, that the PE was designed for use primarily in the home workhop. Providing a means of belt tension adjustment would, I imagine, inevitably increase the machine's cost substantially. However, it does seem to me that the thinner and more flexible belts work best, as they will lay flatter on the platen. But much is down to personal choice and the many and varying tasks which owners wish to carry out.
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