|
Post by francis on Apr 10, 2019 19:52:50 GMT
Hi its unclear in the video youtu.be/sl96gRoyqqE?t=320 at around 5mins 23 what angle is used on the pro-set for a typical long grind ? just for reference I wrote the following notes from the video Standard Grind 60degs on back to form U 45degs on vblock to sharpen Finger grind 45degs on back to form U 35 to 50 on pro-set to get angle in demo they use 45 - first hole on jig Long grind 15 degs on back to form U (unknown) on pro-set to get angle - last hole on jig Very long grind not shown
|
|
|
Post by Pete on Apr 11, 2019 0:23:19 GMT
Do you have the long grind jig (3 positions for the clamp stem) you then need to set the angle you want for the front of the bevel (usually 45 degrees) but may be more for deep bowls, and let the jig handle the sides. The default jig that comes with Deluxe ProEdge only does the fingernail grind.
|
|
|
Post by francis on Apr 11, 2019 4:45:36 GMT
Thanks yes I have the three hole jig
So 45 or 50 would be a good place to start - I’ll give it a go
|
|
|
Post by francis on Apr 11, 2019 8:00:55 GMT
Forgot to ask - do you always use 15deg on the back or do you have a variation on this too
|
|
|
Post by atnbirdie on Oct 25, 2019 1:50:12 GMT
Pete- Just got the PE system. I have a couple of gouges with a 60 deg bevel and long (Ellsworth) grind. I have the 3 hole fingernail boss and know to use the outer hole to do a long grind. However, when I lay the nose of the 60 deg gouge up to the belt, it doesn't stick out of the jig far enough to permit me to lay the jig over to do the side bevels. I saw a post here from April where it looked like you said to do the side separately from the nose which I should do as a standard grind to get up to 60 deg. However, not sure how I'd get a smooth blending. To be able to sweep, I'd need the nose protruding enough to roll the gouge which would put the nose at more like a 50 deg bevel. Is that close enough to to blend the shallower sides with the steeper nose? Thanks for any clarity you can provide. Steve
|
|
|
Post by Pete on Oct 25, 2019 9:14:41 GMT
Hi Steve Like you I use the 3 hole Fingernail jig, BUT I only use 45° on Ellsworth, I have 60° on a bowl gouge for deep bowls but that is a standard grind, wouldn't want wings that far inside a piece of timber. The Official video shows the 3 stage process clearly. Click Here, I think you may be getting miss-led by Francis's post which is the same video but jumps in after the start. the angles he is quoting are for recovering a damaged tool not the grind angle you want for the wings. Pete
|
|
|
Post by atnbirdie on Oct 25, 2019 13:18:32 GMT
I think I get it now. I played around with the 3 hole boss statically last night and noticed the obvious - the ProSet stops only apply to the standard fingernail hole position. When I put my 60 deg long grind in the jig in the most distant hole (for an extra long grind) and extend the tip of the gouge so the 60 deg face is flush on the belt, it is extended between the ProSet 45 and 50 deg stops. So I just need to set up another stop for extra long grind fingernails with a 60 deg face if I choose to keep that setup Thanks.
|
|
|
Post by atnbirdie on Nov 4, 2019 3:30:48 GMT
To get used to my ProEdge, I've been playing around with it and my ProSet gauge and thought I'd share my results. Hopefully this isn't old news to you folks. I have the 3 hole boss where I understand hole 1 (nearest to the belt) is for a standard fingernail grind (FN below), the middle hole is for long fingernail grinds (FN-L), and the most distant hole is for extra long fingernail grinds (FN-XL). I then made angle measurements using all 12 combinations of ProSet tabs w/all 3 boss holes. Here's what I found:
ProSet 35 tab: FN=35; FN-L=41; FN-XL=47 ProSet 40 tab: FN=40; FN-L=47; FN-XL=53 ProSet 45 tab: FN=45; FN-L=53; FN-XL=60 ProSet 50 tab: FN=50; FN-L=58; FN-XL=65
This makes sense to me as the ProSet is intended for use to establish the standard FN grind so the resulting bevel angles match when using the first hole match the ProSet tabs' marked angles. As I pull the gouge farther away from the belt it touches at a steeper angle. I find this chart useful as I have a a bowl gouge with a 60 degree bevel and XL grind. So now I know I can use my ProSet gauge, set the gouge to the 45 deg ProSet tab, put the jig in the 3rd (most distant) hole in the boss and I know I'll get a 60 deg bevel with the XL fingernail grind I want.
One quirk I noted is that I was getting about a degree less than what the ProSet tabs are marked. I added squares of 1/8" masonite to the tabs to make the extension of my gouges that much shorter and then the standard fingernail grind angles matched the ProSet gauge tab markings. I made all my angle measurements using a properly zeroed Wixey digital angle gauge. I rounded angles up or down to nearest whole degree. I also changed the ProEdge belt angle, re-zeroed the Wixey, and repeated all my angle measurements. They were the same, so I'm pretty confident in my technique.
Hope others find this useful.
|
|
|
Post by atnbirdie on Nov 4, 2019 13:21:05 GMT
It later dawned on my why I needed to add the masonite spacers. My technique involved just using the Sorby hex wrench shaft (used to adjust belt angle) to measure angles. The problem with that is is measures contact with belt at what would be the BOTTOM of a bevel. With an angled bevel, and a gouge held horizontally to contact the ProSet tabs, the TOP of the bevel would extend farther. So with actual gouges ground to spec, the tabs will of course be on target. That minor discrepancy would not affect the resulting measured shaft angles though. Those would still increase by 6-7 degrees for each hole you move the jig back.
|
|
|
Post by Pete on Nov 4, 2019 16:23:34 GMT
Hi Steve,
I am less concerned about angles than repeatable 'cuts nicely' angles so tend to use guestimate backed up by marker pen for setting my tools into the jigs. But good explanations in your post will help others with understanding the ProEdge, thank you.
Pete
|
|
|
Post by francis on Nov 4, 2019 19:21:10 GMT
|
|
|
Post by atnbirdie on Nov 5, 2019 0:45:51 GMT
Good to have confirmation especially as I'm new to the ProEdge.
Just finished reshaping all my tools from the bench grinder/Wolverine bevels to the ProEdge. Of course, most were just minor tweaks that 120 grit handled well. I just wanted to ensure they were all shaped by the new system as well as practice some with it.
There is one grind I find difficult to achieve. I use a Jimmy Clewes style of grind on a couple of bowl gouges. That is a 60 degree bevel with an Ellsworth grind. I just can't get the Ellsworth grind very far back on the flute as the jig contacts the bed especially on the left side. The right side of the belt is right at the edge of the underlying metal bed so I can lay the gouge over to get that. However, moving left, I can't get far enough over to lay the edge down still on the belt. The tip of the gouge is hanging off the right edge of the belt. Would have liked to keep that grind, but looks like I'll have to live with something closer to 50 deg to be able to get the sweep I want.
Would also have liked to have a 40 deg setting for the tool rests. I can of course get 40 degrees with the gouge jig, but if I wanted a 40/40 grind, can't set the table to that angle. May have to set the table to 35 degs and fashion a shim. Again though, this is a minor inconvenience. I can see I am going to like the ProEdge a lot.
Thanks again for the feedback.
|
|
|
Post by Pete on Nov 5, 2019 1:02:28 GMT
Remembering (it's too cold and dark to go to the workshop right now!) the angle set holes for setting the table, I suspect that it would not be too difficult to add another hole to the inner radius at 40° position. If you use the 40/40 a lot it would be worth the effort to make the setup quick and easy.
Set an angle gauge take the back stop screw out and just rely on friction hold from the front screw get your 40° and see if you can mark the plate to drill a locating hole.
|
|
|
Post by atnbirdie on Nov 5, 2019 3:44:28 GMT
Thanks for the ideas Pete. I usually come up with stuff like that, but the ProEdge perhaps a little too knew for me to have been thinking about drilling through the chassis. LOL Your second alternative (a friction hold) could be augmented with some kind of clamp to form a stop to help hold the stage at the proper angle. Will have to play around with these ideas in the light...
|
|
|
Post by atnbirdie on Nov 5, 2019 4:16:15 GMT
I couldn't wait. Went down to my shop, set up the tool rest with a friction hold at 40 degs. There is space for another 5/16" hole for a 40 deg set point below the 20 and 30 deg holes. In other words, using the secondary set hole on the arm of the tool rest, and once I drill a hole, I'll be able to set the tool rest to 40 degs. I may just do this...
|
|