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Post by timwilkins on May 15, 2014 0:22:42 GMT
Hi all. has anyone found that the turnmaster is harder to turn with as it is the opposite to what you were taught. I was always tought to have have the tool rest as close to the part that you were turning but with the turnmaster to use it right you have to have about a 2 inch gap to use it properly on its flat side and that is a lot of overhang for something wrong to happen. The front of the tool keeps being forced downwards by the rotation of the work so you have to keep hold of the back of the tool and are forced to try to keep the handle in the same position which for a little one like me is a bit of a struggle and lots of times I loose the battle and are forces to change to my usual tools. Does anyone have any tips that can help me use this tool. Thanks Tim
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Post by Paul Hannaby on May 15, 2014 8:33:15 GMT
I think you have hit upon the biggest disadvantage with tools of this type. Treat it as a normal scraper and on the outside of a spindle, cut below centre with the tool angled so the cutting edge is below the height of the handle so the edge is trailing slightly. In this position, the edge is pushed away from the wood if the cut is too aggressive so it is easier to control.
If you are using the tool for hollowing, cut above centre and the same applies with the handle as above. Also, you can rotate the tool anticlockwise to trail the edge against the wood when hollowing the side of the hole.
Regards
Paul
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Post by Jeff Farris on May 15, 2014 13:49:03 GMT
If you're "forcing" anything, something is wrong.
First, let's address the tool rest position, as that is a frequent criticism of the TurnMaster. While it takes a bit to get used to positioning the rest further away from the work, it poses no more danger to you or your work than having the rest close to the work, where a pinch point is created. The shaft of the TurnMaster is massive compared to most turning tools, easily absorbing the impact of the work on the tool edge. If the tool is grabbing, you're either feeding the tool into the work too quickly, or the edge is blunt or both.
The tool rest height should be positioned so that the tool edge is on the center line of the work. Not above, and not below...on center. The edge should be sharp. If it won't scrape your fingernail, rotate the cutter to a fresh edge or freshen the edge with a lapping plate or bench stone (requires diamond abrasive if you're using the carbide cutters). Try holding the handle by the bulb next to the tang, rather than back at the butt. Position yourself so that the handle runs under and parallel with your forearm. Ease the cutter into the work. A light touch and a steady feed rate will remove more material than trying to jab at the work.
Don't forget to take advantage of the best feature of the TurnMaster. Once you have the project shaped with the cutter in the horizontal position, turn the head to the shear angle and make a finishing cut. You'll save yourself hours of sanding.
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Post by moberdan on May 15, 2014 17:50:51 GMT
The videos show the tool is used in the trailing mode ie the cutter is on the centre of the work but the handle is slightly raised. I bought one of these tools and gave up on it, I have never had so many catches with any other tool. I bought another brand new cutter and presented the tool as above and definitely did not force it. I still got catches. Wish I new where I was going wrong, the video makes it all look so easy.
Tom
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Post by Jeff Farris on May 15, 2014 19:12:13 GMT
Sorry you've had issues, Tom, let's see if we can get them resolved.
I just watched both of the videos on our web site again, and only saw a couple of instances where you might get the idea that the tool is angled downward. It might be that there actually was a slight down angle to those cuts, or possibly it's a trick of the camera angle. I can think of a couple of rare instances when I give it a slight downward angle but for the most part, and certainly when getting a feel for the tool, I strongly suggest you work with the tool dead parallel and on the center-line of the work piece.
I'll also come back to sharpness. A brand new cutter should have been keen, but test it to be sure. Scrape the cutter across your fingernail. If it just slides, it needs attention. If it grabs and/or shaves a bit of nail, it should cut at the lathe.
A follow-up question for you, too, Tom, when you had the problem, was it on a bowl blank or a spindle project (wood perpendicular or parallel to the bed of the lathe)? It might do to give it another go on a spindle blank. It's a bit easier to get a feel for the tool when the grain is parallel to the bed.
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Post by Mel Russell on May 16, 2014 11:39:04 GMT
I read with interest the problems with the toolmaster. Can anyone give me the correct angle to sharpen the blade and at what asngle the blade should be set to ?
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Post by Jeff Farris on May 16, 2014 14:37:19 GMT
Mel,
The TurnMaster tips are ground to 80 degrees, but unless you've damaged the tip severely, you really should only need to hone the top surface to sharpen the tool.
Not sure what your mean by the second half of your question. The tip should be horizontal for fast stock removal and set to the shear angle for smooth finishing cuts. Is that the angle your asking about?
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Post by moberdan on May 17, 2014 13:38:34 GMT
I got terrible catches on bowl hollowing, which was what I bought the tool for in the first place. On the video it looked like very fast removal of initial waste.
On spindle work it was not too bad but I did get one or two catches. Best mode was when I turned the tool head to the 45 deg. position the smoothness of the cut was very good.
Tom
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Post by Jeff Farris on May 17, 2014 18:45:18 GMT
Tom,
Give it another go at bowl hollowing. Be sure you have a sharp edge, check the tool rest and tinker with it until the cutting edge is on the centerline when the tool shaft is horizontal, and ease into the cut. Once you get a feel for it, it hollows very quickly.
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Post by moberdan on May 20, 2014 14:49:47 GMT
Hi Jeff, I did as you suggested and still got terrible catches. The cutter took fine powdery shavings from my thumb nail. I marked the centre of the blank and I even stuck a small bubble level on the tool. All to no avail. In desperation I modified the tool to give me slightly less overhang. This did help a little but only for the beginning of the hollowing process.
I have used the easy Ci 1 roughing tool with no problems, but that is held with the handle slightly high. I am very disappointed with the turnmaster. I am a big fan of Sorby tools, all my regular gouges are Sorby and they are great. I will persevere with the turnmaster for a while but it looks like it will be condemned to the bin and written off to experience at this stage.
Tom
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Post by Jeff Farris on May 21, 2014 10:08:01 GMT
Tom,
Not sure what you modified, but I assure you, the overhang of the tool is absolutely, positively not the cause of your catches. It simply doesn't matter. The tool is designed to do deep hollowing of small diameter bowls and narrow opening vessels...you'll be hanging far off the tool rest by the time you get to the bottom of those style projects, no matter what. So the small amount of overhang you have at the beginning of the project certainly isn't going to matter.
Your bubble level isn't necessary. Perhaps I overstated the need to be level. Level to slightly trailing...don't overthink that part of it.
Without standing at your side, I can't absolutely diagnose the problem, but I've got a pretty good guess, having been at the side of quite a few guys in the same situation. Using a scraper -- any scraper, not just a TurnMaster -- is quite different to hollowing with a bowl gouge. If you're a fair hand with a bowl gouge, or have watched a buddy that is, you're used to taking a rather healthy cut per pass. If you try to do that with a scraper, a catch is inevitable. The key to quickly removing stock with a scraper is to take a whisker of a cut, work across the piece fairly quickly, and cut in both directions. Pretty soon, you'll develop a rhythm for the cut and a feel for how deep to work and catches will be a very rare occurrence.
What typically happens is that the turner will get a catch, and in determination to control the tool, holds on tighter and scrunches up his shoulders. Now we're headed down a dead end alley. It isn't a matter of man-handling the tool, it's a matter of dancing with it.
One of my turning mentors suggested to me years ago to practice taking as little as possible off the work-piece. This is spot-on perfect advise for learning to cut efficiently with the TurnMaster. If you get a feel for taking the slightest whisker off the piece, you'll be well on your way to cutting quickly. Less is more.
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Post by jimcarroll on May 22, 2014 9:13:51 GMT
One reason for a longer tool overhang is to make sure when you remove the tool from the work you make a clean removal, not bump over any parts of the tool on the rest and have disasterous results
if you set the tool rest on centre height this will allow the tool to cut above centre , you can then drop the front of the tool down to centre height.
If you set the tool on centre height the normal tendancy is to drop the front of the tool so you are now working on the lower part of your work and catches can happen.
Hold the tool with your right hand at the front of the handle and use your arm to support the handle so it does not move around on you. You then have your left hand to help control the tool where it sits on the toolrest
If you have your hand at the end of the handle like a tennis racquet you will find it harder to control.
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Post by Clive Brooks on May 22, 2014 11:07:48 GMT
Hi Tom
I am pleased to read you are a Robert Sorby tool fan and thank you for your compliments about them.
But I am sorry to hear that you are still having difficulty with the TurnMaster.
Jeff and Jim have given some excellent advice.
The majority of woodturning is about body movement and control.
Many woodturning tools use long handles which are designed to be held into the body to give this control through body movement.
The TurnMaster is one of these tools that utilises a long handle.
Have you tried locking the tool handle into your body using your forearm with your hand at the front of the handle as suggested by Jeff and Jim?
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Post by moberdan on May 22, 2014 14:12:22 GMT
Hi Jeff, Made a small bowl today without a single catch, thank you for all your advice and help. Here is a summary of what I did today for the information of other forum members. The tool was held with the cutter on centre with flat of the tool parallel to the lathe bed. Taking it easy and slow without allowing myself to hold too tightly I took very small "bites" letting the tool do the work and not forcing it. The other thing I did and perhaps the most important I speeded the lathe up. I believe that I was running too slow and that was more than half my problem. I quickly got into a rhythm and got a good finish to start sanding at 240 grit. The wood was a very dry piece of yew. the only tool used was the turnmaster. Jims advice above is very different.
I am happy with the results I got using your method and I am sure that as I gain more experience and confidence I will be using the turnmaster like a pro Thanks once again.
Tom.
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Post by Jeff Farris on May 22, 2014 17:25:09 GMT
Tom,
Couldn't be happier to hear about your most recent experience! I thought about mentioning speed...should have...you've touched on a key point, which is faster is better with this particular tool.
Did you shear scrape for the final cut? I'm guessing that you did, given you've started sanding at 240 grit.
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