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Post by Pete on Oct 12, 2018 18:41:45 GMT
What is the normal expected belt life? and what belt type / grits are you all using?
I messed up my 19mm Skew when first using the Pro Edge, discovered the reason, the feral is catching the back of the skew jig I guess I need a new Skew!
Having just laid out for the ProEdge that will have to wait a while, SO I have been trying to re-profile only able to hold the Skew at the edge of the table where it is angled.
Reset the skew angle as described in the videos gave me 1mm flat across the cutting edge, to resharpen from. in removing that 0.5mm from each side of the skew has destroyed a 60 grit and a 120 grit Aluminum Oxide belt and it is still not sharp.
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Belt Life
Oct 13, 2018 6:04:42 GMT
via mobile
Post by Clive Brooks on Oct 13, 2018 6:04:42 GMT
Hi Pete... The 60 grit (blue/green) Zirconium or 60 grit Ceramic are ideal for reprofiling/reshaping/repairing.
I would suggest keeping the Aluminium Oxide belts for Carbon steel tools... Such as carving and woodworking chisels, please blades and knives
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Post by Pete on Oct 13, 2018 11:23:17 GMT
Thanks Clive, would possibly be a good thing if the Deluxe that comes with Jigs for mainly HSS wood turning tools also came with the belts for the job.
I bought the Pro Edge because it doesn't need as much fuss as the Tormec, so far it is very disappointing as a tool. I was expecting small differences between the jig sets so a certain amount of re-profiling, but so far nothing is anywhere near as sharp as I am used to.
Belts are worn out very quickly and become a great way of heating metal rather than removing it. and my number one go to 19mm oval skew has been destroyed by the Pro Edge while still having enough length for another year or so of sharpening on the Tormec.
I will get some new belts and give it a further chance, but first impressions are I was sold a pup, and I am very disappointed so far.
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Post by Clive Brooks on Oct 15, 2018 7:18:12 GMT
Hi Pete...I'm sorry your first experience has been less than you hoped. We have received a great deal of praise and compliments about the ProEdge over the many years, so I would like to try and help your experience improve. Can I check a few things you've said so I can assist you. I am not sure what you mean by 'I was expecting small differences between the jig sets so a certain amount of re-profiling, but so far nothing is anywhere near as sharp as I am used to.' What differences in jig sets do you mean? The re=profiling/repairing/reshaping belt supplied in the Deluxe box is a 60 grit Zirconium which is exactly the same material as used in our factory for doing these procedures as it is very efficient and long lasting. The Aluminium Oxide (Ali Ox) belts for sharpening are the same material as a white wheel on a grinder so something all of us woodturners are used to. Once your tool is profiled by the ProEdge it will only need a touch on the 120 grit Ali Ox to give it a gorgeous sharp edge. We have many ProEdge customers that continue to use the Ali Ox belts and others move onto the 120 grit Zirconium or Ceramic which last considerably longer but obviously carry a higher price. Reading other posts of yours I assume you are in the West Country, Where abouts are you based Pete? I hope this information helps with your experience of the machine. Cheers Clive
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Post by Pete on Oct 15, 2018 11:35:00 GMT
Hi Clive
I have been using a Tormek T7 for several years to sharpen my tools, when I say difference in Jigs I am talking about the possibility it's changing from 14.98 degrees to 15.2 degrees nothing major just the probability that the 2 sets of jigs are not 100% identical. Requiring an initial touch on the 60 grit on all tools just to adjust the fraction difference. So initial setup will use more belt life than future use of just putting the edge back.
This may have been compounded by the fact I was unlucky and my pro-edge came with scoring in the base-plate which has been sorted by Paul sending me a replacement. Paul also sent me a 120 Ceramic belt. But that is also now worn out in attempting to sharpen a single skew.
I was drawn to the Pro-Edge because the Tormek requires setting up with water, which takes a while as you have to let the stone absorb it and keep topping up to get it all ready, more faffing with the jigs and the fingernail jig is not as good as the Sorby one. So for my use once learned and tools set up to it the Pro-Edge should be quicker for occasional use.
But where the Tormek will produce an edge that with no more than the weight of the tool and handle will cut clean through a piece of standard A4 paper I am not getting that razor edge off the Pro-Edge on any tool even with the Trizact as a final sharpening grit yet.
From the advice you gave above I have ordered new Zirconium 60 and 120 belts, My usual supplier doesn't have the Ceramic in stock.
I will reply to your Email with measurements etc on the skew I messed up...
Cheers
Pete
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gus
New Member
Posts: 16
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Post by gus on Dec 11, 2018 5:26:52 GMT
Pete,
If it helps I can promice you the proedge can put a great edge on a tool. It will do it quicker than hand sharpening and more accurately than by hand or with a bench grinder.
I don't yet know a great deal about belt selection but I do know that blunt/loaded belts will add a lot of heat, like a wheel.
Work down the grits. Start rough and shape up. Each sucsessive finer grit will be quick.
1mm seamed like a big flat. Bring most of that back on a bench grinder (pink wheel). Make a guide from the proedge to set the bench grinder rest to to correct angle.
Have you tried reconditioning loaded belts with an old thong?
Cya
Gus
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Post by Pete on Dec 11, 2018 11:58:37 GMT
Hi Gus
I am getting better at using the ProEdge now, though it is not as sharp as the Tormec could achieve, which you could literally shave with, it is done in moments, and little to no set up required so it is a better system for wood turning, especially when using knotty soft woods which I find kills an edge quicker than oak.
Initial excessive belt wear has settled down, I now use a belt cleaner and my tools are mostly set to the angles the ProEdge uses (+ or - 0.x of a degree from the Tormec jigs) and I haven't really changed the belt from the 120 for a few weeks now as it's just touching up an edge.
I know what you mean by re-profiling on a bench grinder, though I am hoping never to use that again, it is in my "to be sold" cupboard The Tormec has moved into it's bench space, I still use that for plane and knife sharpening as I have the jigs for it plus it was such a big investment when I bought it I can't see me parting with it in a hurry!
Only problem I have now is I created a fixed position work space for my ProEdge, and now you have put the leather belt into my head I may need to build a rotating work table for it!!
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gus
New Member
Posts: 16
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Post by gus on Dec 12, 2018 18:40:39 GMT
My leather belt works well conceptually, but is too bumpy practicaly. Until I get a solution to this issue I'll use a disk of 4-5 mm leather from the front of the sholder. Works ok but not as good as the leather belts potential. Either way I've just been turning the blade edge down.
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Post by phoneman on Dec 12, 2018 23:22:32 GMT
Pete,
I was surprised by your comment:
“I was drawn to the Pro-Edge because the Tormek requires setting up with water, which takes a while as you have to let the stone absorb it and keep topping up to get it all ready, more faffing with the jigs and the fingernail jig is not as good as the Sorby one. So for my use once learned and tools set up to it the Pro-Edge should be quicker for occasional use.”
I was told by a Sorby rep that the Sorby gouge jig was actually the Tormek jig, and that Sorby paid Tormek royalties to use. Tormek has since redesigned that SVD-185 jig with the much improved SVD-186. If Sorby has also modified its jig, perhaps you are comparing the Sorby using the newer Tormek jig with your Tormek using the older jig.
phoneman
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Post by Pete on Dec 13, 2018 9:02:57 GMT
Hi Phoneman,
The Tormek jig relies on putting a ball into the flute of the gouge, so you need to get it visually flat in the jig, then double check it on a hand spun stone before use, it also fails to grip several tools. While the Sorby one has a bar that presses on the upper flats of the gouge ensuring it is always in the jig correctly, simpler quicker and more accurate.
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Post by phoneman on Dec 13, 2018 10:16:19 GMT
Hi, Pete.
You are correctly describing the older version of the Tormek gouge jig. The new version, the SVD-186, also has the flat bar. It was one of several improvements. The other notable improvement was redesigning the jig setting lock from the problemstic Allen wrench (which could slip) to an easier to use and very dependable locking knob with ratcheting adjustment clicks. I hope the Sorby version has incorporated the adjustment clicks.
I think each system has its strong areas. Ideally, I would use both.
As someone new to active turning, I appreciate Sorby's line of turning tools. I have purchased nine and find them all well designed and made practical tools.
phoneman
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Post by Pete on Dec 13, 2018 11:07:53 GMT
Hi Phoneman,
Yes both systems are excellent, and as it happens I currently have both :-) When I was just turning all the time the setup and cleanup of the Tormek was well worth doing at the start and end of each day, now I do a lot more cabinet making so turning is often a part day activity and the simplicity of the ProEdge wins the day, there is a 0.x degree difference in the jigs and settings, so it's best to just use one or the other systems.
I get a sharper edge with the Tormek, however I also have more experience with it so that may change. but I sharpen more often due to ease of use on the ProEdge so my turning is better finished.
I couldn't recommend one over the other generically, it would depend on the individual, if they needed to re-profile a lot of tools or if like me they have tools they way they like them already, and how many consistent hours they are turning as well as the timber they are using. Both are excellent, and a world away from the old grind wheel I started with many years ago.
I have no experience of the various other cheaper 'clone's' but have no hesitation in recommending the ProEdge or the Tormek as both get the job done very well, and repeat-ability of edge leads to better and quicker turning.
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